Aubrey
00:07-00:12
All right, welcome back to Generations. I'm one of your co-hosts, Aubrey.

Peter
00:12-00:14
And I am your other co-host, Peter.

Aubrey
00:15-00:24
So besides the fact that I feel or sound congested right now, um, so I obviously am a little sick, how are you, Dad?

Peter
00:24-00:30
I am hanging in there. I was the same, you know, last week. I didn't feel great this week. I'm kind of starting to get back to normal.

Aubrey
00:31-00:32
Yeah.

Peter
00:31-00:37
So yeah, kind of the same, but uh hanging in there, getting ready for some travel starting on Saturday.

Aubrey
00:33-00:34
Yeah.

Peter
00:37-00:47
So And you've got what an extra You've got an uh what an extra week and then you'll be traveling too, is that right?

Aubrey
00:38-00:53
Yep. Cause you're going for hmm I have this week and the next week and then I will also be traveling. Yes. Yes, yes.

Peter
00:52-00:53
Very good.

Aubrey
00:54-00:54
Yep.

Peter
00:54-00:55
Very good.

Aubrey
00:55-00:59
You're headed for G's swim stuff.

Peter
00:59-01:18
Well, yeah, so Saturday, it's districts up in Idaho Falls, then drive down to Salt Lake to catch a plane in the evening to California for the Western Section AUA meeting until Thursday. Then fly back to Salt Lake, drive to Boise for a state swim Friday and Saturday, then drive back Saturday night.

Aubrey
01:18-01:26
Yeah. Geez, that's a lot. Is the the meeting is the one that's sometimes in Hawaii?

Peter
01:26-01:52
Yeah, it's the one that usually every other year is in Hawaii. So last year it was in Kauai. Uh next year it will be in uh on Maui. The year after that it will be back uh in Hawaii uh in on Oahu. So we actually have yeah two years that it will be in Hawaii in a row which is fun.

Aubrey
01:44-02:32
How nice That's awesome. Yeah, sweet. Well, we figured today, um for our topic we would talk about a book that we have mentioned, I feel like, a lot of times, or at least a series we have mentioned many a time. Um In which the fifth of this specific era of books. So the last of the I don't know, how would you even say this? The last of this era Yes, yes, the conclusion to the first cycle in this series came out last.

Peter
02:22-02:26
It's the conclusion to the first cycle.

Aubrey
02:32-02:34
I want to say it was December, I think.

Peter
02:34-02:35
Something like that.

Aubrey
02:35-02:45
Yeah, and that is yeah, I think it was early December, and that is Wind and Truth, the fifth of the Stormlight Archive books.

Peter
02:36-02:57
I think it was early December. Yep Uh, this book is one thousand three hundred and sixty pages long.

Aubrey
02:46-02:58
So, Dad, do you want to tell tell the folks how long is this book? Mm-hmm.

Peter
02:58-03:04
If you are doing audiobook, I believe that it is around 63 and a half hours.

Aubrey
03:04-03:07
Indeed. Indeed it is.

Peter
03:07-03:08
Which is nuts.

Aubrey
03:07-03:42
So it took it to yeah. I don't remember when I finished it. I think I want to say I finished it around March. It was relatively soon after it came out because it came out as I was kind of like I think I was halfway through rhythm of war. So I kind of just went directly, like I finished it and it was out and we had it on Audible and I just went right into it, which is nice for me because I had Everything was fresh. Everything was fresh in my head. Um, so I finished it, yeah, quite a while ago, but you just finished it, right?

Peter
03:42-03:47
I did. I just finished it uh two Sundays ago.

Aubrey
03:47-03:49
Very nice.

Peter
03:48-04:11
So and and there was a reason. I mean, I hadn't I had not actually been reading regularly for a little while. And that's, you know, that's that was on me. But then basically what happened is I realized I really, really, really wanted to read The Lost Metal, which I hadn't read yet either.

Aubrey
04:11-04:11
Yeah.

Peter
04:11-05:01
But it had been so long since I had read the initial, the original Mistborn trilogy. I remember when I was reading Bands of Mourning and it's like so the chondra are so inextricably linked to what was happening. In Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning. And I didn't remember a lot of the stuff that it was making reference to. So anyway, long and short of it, I was like, oh, I need to read. all of Mistborn. So I read all seven Mistborn books. And then I read. And then I also had not read Uh the I had not read the Secret Project books.

Aubrey
05:02-05:08
Oh, okay. Which Oh, yeah, yeah.

Peter
05:04-05:17
So then I read I read all of those. I read Tress and then the uh Yumi and Sunlit Man and um the medieval wizard, whatever, f the forgettable one that doesn't matter.

Aubrey
05:18-05:18
Right.

Peter
05:20-05:30
And then I had to watch like a three-hour YouTube video to get caught up so that I could go in and read Wind and Truth.

Aubrey
05:30-05:30
Yeah.

Peter
05:30-05:35
And then I started Wind and Truth, and it just took me four freaking ever to finish it.

Aubrey
05:35-05:40
Yeah. So you did read Lost Metal. I don't remember you saying you finished that.

Peter
05:39-05:44
Yep. Oh yeah, no, I've months ago.

Aubrey
05:40-05:42
When did you finish that?

Peter
05:44-05:49
I don't know. Whatever I I mainlined all seven plus Mistborn Secret History.

Aubrey
05:45-05:46
Maybe I do.

Peter
05:49-05:51
So I did all seven of those and that.

Aubrey
05:51-05:57
Why do I not remember that? Well isn't it crazy? It's crazy. Lost metal, I thought.

Peter
05:57-06:09
It is crazy. So, you know, I think we I think we should spoil the book in a bit, but let's maybe not spoil it from the get-go.

Aubrey
06:06-06:12
Yes. Yes. Sounds good. Sounds good to me.

Peter
06:12-06:20
So, okay. What were your big thoughts? If you kind of look at the I don't know. You finished Wind and Truth and what'd you what did you think?

Aubrey
06:19-06:59
Mm-hmm. My my overall feelings were um A bit of like the heart wrenching, you know, someone stabbed me in the heart sort of thing. Um a lot of mixed feelings like ooh ouch and also uh I don't know if I like that. I don't know if that made sense to me. Um, but overall just a very emotional book for me, I would say. I just have a lot of mixed, a lot of positive and also a lot of negative I would say.

Peter
06:58-07:00
Yeah. Okay.

Aubrey
07:00-07:03
Mostly confusion. But what about you?

Peter
07:02-07:09
Okay I was relieved. I was relieved when it was done for many, many reasons.

Aubrey
07:07-07:10
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Peter
07:09-07:22
I was relieved because there are some characters who let me just put it this way, and I'm gonna be the heretic. I'm glad I won't have to spend any more time with them.

Aubrey
07:22-07:23
Mm, mm-hmm.

Peter
07:24-07:30
And there's some other characters where I'm like, oh good. Maybe you'll finally shut up now.

Aubrey
07:33-07:36
That's fair, that's very fair.

Peter
07:36-07:45
So so I don't know, like I I liked it. It is definitely not my favorite of the Stormlight books.

Aubrey
07:45-07:46
Yeah.

Peter
07:46-07:50
Like, it might be near the bottom.

Aubrey
07:51-07:52
Okay, interesting.

Peter
07:51-07:56
So I think for me, Words of Radiance is the my favorite.

Aubrey
07:56-07:57
Okay.

Peter
07:58-08:12
And then I think Way of Kings may be Kind of my next. And then I don't know, Oathbringer, Rhythm of War, and Wind and Truth are all kind of vying in that third place spot.

Aubrey
08:12-08:20
Fair enough Yeah.

Peter
08:13-08:29
Depending on different things. I would probably say I think actually Rhythm of War might be my least favorite. Not for any reason I could identify, because it's been since that book came out that I read it. But I remember as I was reading it going, really?

Aubrey
08:25-08:26
Yeah.

Peter
08:29-08:38
Like it's it progresses the story forward, but it also I felt like rhythm of war unnecessarily complicated things.

Aubrey
08:30-08:50
Yeah Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. I I was a little was a little bored during during some of Rhythm of War. Um so I also didn't really love it.

Peter
08:50-09:00
I was bored and then there were times where I was just like the exploration of Kaladin's depression was too much.

Aubrey
09:00-09:25
Yeah. Yeah, that was that was a lot. Um and in terms of that one and like his his journey, I felt like How do I say this? I'm very lucky to not really have bad depression. I'm it defin you know everyone everyone kind of has d stop laughing at me. Hayden's laughing at me.

Peter
09:24-09:27
I was gonna say, I could see you looking off screen. I'm like, Hayden must be over there.

Aubrey
09:26-09:42
Stop laughing at me. Well, okay, here's what let me I'm just gonna spit it out. Some people don't like that part of Caldon because they it feels like just a little too on the nose And for me it's not on the nose because I do not understand. Like I literally do not understand.

Peter
09:41-09:41
Sure.

Aubrey
09:42-09:45
I'm an anxious gal a gal. I'm not a depressed gal.

Peter
09:45-09:48
Right, you're more of an anx anxiety thing.

Aubrey
09:46-10:07
Which, you know, that's too different. Two different struggles. But so and I mean I guess it's good in a way because I'm able to understand on a on a different level. But I also was just a little confused. Um, and didn't feel like I could relate in any way. So I was kind of a little like, um, what's going on?

Peter
10:08-10:14
Yeah, I'm in the camp that it felt too on the nose and a little too heavy-handed.

Aubrey
10:08-10:50
So yeah Yeah Yeah.

Peter
10:16-10:47
Because I will say I am someone who absolutely has suffered from high-functioning depression. And I feel like that's kind of where Sanderson is trying to take Kaladin. And I I don't know. I felt like it was just a little too heavy-handed at some points. And And so, yeah, Rhythm of War was probably my least favorite of them. And then I would say Wind and Truth is in fourth place, and then probably Oathbringer.

Aubrey
10:50-11:09
Yeah, I did really like Way of Kings just as the classic f you know, finding out about Stormlight and all that stuff is always super fun. The other thing I didn't I I couldn't really catch on to Nivani's whole arc with the one what's her name? I can't remember her name. The fused.

Peter
11:10-11:12
Oh yeah, I don't even remember.

Aubrey
11:10-11:18
Kid like the the top the top fused lady, like their whole arc didn't really didn't really get me didn't really get me at all.

Peter
11:14-11:18
Yeah, that yeah, me either.

Aubrey
11:18-11:44
I was a little bored. Um it's funny as someone who's like a scientist when like science like that is and like scholarship, I guess, is gone into really deeply in like a fantasy book. I get You lose me real quickly. I don't know why. But I just was getting lost. I was like, y'all are just being annoying and smart smarties right now and it's annoying me.

Peter
11:46-11:55
Yeah, I I kind of felt like that too, where it was there were times where it felt like uh the book was being too clever for its own good.

Aubrey
11:55-11:55
Yeah.

Peter
11:56-11:59
So, well, let's talk wind and truth.

Aubrey
11:57-11:57
Yeah.

Peter
11:59-12:12
What were some things though that you did like? And then maybe we can again spoil free and then let's talk about what we didn't like, spoiler free, and then we're gonna Then we're gonna spoil this thing.

Aubrey
12:09-12:25
Yeah. Spoil. Yeah. Um, so things I did like is Kaladin being able to, you know, kind of not be as depressed as he was in rhythm of war.

Peter
12:24-12:24
Uh-huh.

Aubrey
12:25-12:28
I wouldn't say that's a spoiler, right? That's probably not that much of a spoiler.

Peter
12:28-12:36
No, and I think I mean I think we could just generally say that I liked Kaladin's character arc in this book.

Aubrey
12:35-12:48
Yeah. I liked his character arc. I d I mean I g we'll get to the things we didn't like later. Um I did like his. Um it made me be like, okay, I don't have to be so worried about him right now.

Peter
12:48-12:55
Yeah, I mean I think honestly, a as I finished it out of all of the arcs, I think Kaladin's was my favorite.

Aubrey
12:56-13:31
Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. Um I am a sucker for kind of the last book in a series, especially when certain things are wrapped up positively. Like I I'm just a sucker for any sort of happy ending. And not saying how the ending actually was, but any little happy happy endings. um, which we can talk about later. I did enjoy. Um I enjoy when things aren't left super, super cliffhanger-y, um, where you like literally don't know what's happening with the character.

Peter
13:27-13:36
No, and and I would Yeah, and and I would say that Kaladin probably has the happiest ending.

Aubrey
13:37-14:05
Definitely. Yep. So I I like that. I want my boy to have have a happy ending. Because again, he was just he was just really going through going through a lot. Um Other things that I did like mildly. Um, well, I did like Adolin's arc during this book a lot.

Peter
14:01-14:23
Yeah. I would say for me especially the relationship between Adolin and Yonagon I I think that was I would say that that probably out of all kind of because we see a number of we see a number of relationships sort of change and and develop and grow over the course of this book.

Aubrey
14:09-14:21
Yes, that's his name. Yeah.

Peter
14:23-14:30
And I I see really kind of three main ones. And so I would say we've got Kaladin and Zeth.

Aubrey
14:30-14:31
Yep.

Peter
14:31-14:33
So that's a mate, that's a key one.

Aubrey
14:33-14:34
Yep.

Peter
14:33-14:41
We've got Adolin and Yonagon, and then we've got Renarin and um Arlain, right?

Aubrey
14:40-14:43
Mm-hmm. Rulane, I think.

Peter
14:42-14:43
Relane. There we go.

Aubrey
14:43-14:44
Yeah.

Peter
14:43-14:54
Thank you. Couldn't remember if there was a vowel after the R, so um so those are kind of the main like relationships that change and develop over the course.

Aubrey
14:47-14:53
Yep, Rulane. Yeah.

Peter
14:54-15:06
And out of those three, the relationship between Adolin and Yannagon is my favorite of the of the three kind of main relationships that that evolve over the course of the book.

Aubrey
14:59-15:08
Yeah Yep, yep, I definitely like that.

Peter
15:06-15:21
So I was gonna say, Zeth is funny because he is so incredibly unfunny.

Aubrey
15:08-15:37
I Zeth also is just I just love him, love him a lot. He's just a funny guy without meaning to actually be funny. Um So incredibly unfunny that it becomes funny. Yeah. Um yeah, I also run I I like Rolaine a lot, so I really loved Renarin and Rolane's um arc that made me very happy.

Peter
15:31-15:45
I do too. I think the thing about Renarin and Relaine that I didn't like as much was the situation of their relationship.

Aubrey
15:37-15:57
That made me very happy. Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, we'll get to Yeah, we'll get to the negatives.

Peter
15:45-15:59
And we'll get into that. But I'll be honest, that whole story, like, oh, I'm getting into the negative. So we'll we'll get to that in just a few minutes. We'll get to that in a few minutes. What other things did you like?

Aubrey
15:57-16:05
Um There's some pretty epic battles in Adolin's um arc that I really, really enjoyed.

Peter
16:03-16:04
Oh yeah.

Aubrey
16:05-16:24
I love the epic battles. Um those were fantastic with that whole that whole situation. Um that's I'm like actively scrolling through the the recap so I can actually remember. There's a little There's a lot of things I don't like, so I'm trying to not say those immediately.

Peter
16:25-16:43
So I liked I I did enjoy though again it's one of those things that I feel like I feel like Brandon really needed his editor to do more in this book. Look, I'm just gonna we're we're gonna start with the I'm this is my biggest complaint.

Aubrey
16:43-16:44
Mm-hmm.

Peter
16:44-17:20
is I feel like Brandon Sanderson sells so many books now that his editor is completely lazy. I feel like his editor or editors, whoever, and again, pure speculation. But I feel like I read his books now, especially I think about The Lost Metal and Wind and Truth, where I felt this more than anything. I'm like He needs an editor to number one rein him in a little bit and number two to help tighten up the language. Because it feels like all that's happening at this point is somebody's just doing a spell check and then sending it back and be like, sure, publish that sucker, whatever, because we know you're gonna sell Like crazy anyway.

Aubrey
17:18-17:21
Yes, yep.

Peter
17:21-18:00
So that aside, I feel like um I'm trying to remember where I was going with this. Like I I liked um I I again like you I liked some of the battles. I liked The backstory, I remember where I was going. I did like the backstory we got into both Zeth. but also kind of of Tanavast, you know, um honor and and kind of what led us to all to to the end of the book there.

Aubrey
17:52-17:54
Yep, absolutely.

Peter
18:00-18:06
And I liked finding out more about Shinivar as a land and everything.

Aubrey
18:04-18:37
Yes Yeah, I feel like there was a lot, even though it was a really long book I don't know, it felt like maybe it needed to be split or some of the things didn't need to be brought up because it felt like there was just so much new information and world building that it just felt kind of overwhelming for me in in ways.

Peter
18:06-18:37
I liked that where I was going with the editors, I'm like. But good lord, that there's stuff in there that could have been tightened up. Yeah, I can see that.

Aubrey
18:38-18:39
But yeah.

Peter
18:39-18:44
So I don't know. I mean, let's talk about what didn't work for us and then let's let's go into spoilers.

Aubrey
18:44-19:03
Yeah, oh the one th the last one thing I did really love is uh lift. I love her. Love her so much. She's hilarious. I love like her teaching Gavanor bad words and just like being funny. I she's just hilarious. I do love her.

Peter
19:02-19:10
So I agree with you in that I think Lift is a great character, but I thought Lift was so incredibly poorly used in this book.

Aubrey
19:03-19:12
So And yep, I do agree.

Peter
19:11-19:21
and like underused and like like she was in there and it felt like she was just in there because he needed to remind us that she's a character.

Aubrey
19:13-19:24
Yep Yeah, but she didn't really do anything that I remember.

Peter
19:22-19:40
But I don't feel like she was used in any way. And so it's it was every scene with Lyft was fun But and again I feel bad saying this, but I'm like, you could have taken all this out and you could have cut this book down and it wouldn't have harmed the story at all.

Aubrey
19:38-19:50
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely agree. But yeah, so continuing with the continuing with the negatives. Um Shallan.

Peter
19:51-19:54
Uh, does anybody like Shallan?

Aubrey
19:52-19:57
Hayden's laughing cause all I said was the negatives Shallan and Hayden's laughing at me.

Peter
19:57-20:00
Does anybody like Shallan?

Aubrey
19:58-20:17
Nobody likes Shalan. Nobody likes Shallan. I wish she would shut up. I wish she would stop. talking and whining and complaining and doing the things that she's doing. I wish she would stop. I wish she would just stop I hate her whole arc with the ghost bloods.

Peter
20:13-20:29
Yes Well, so here's what here's the thing.

Aubrey
20:17-20:28
I hate it. I really, really do. Maybe there's a a f further purpose for something. I don't know. I I can't find myself appreciating it at all. I can't.

Peter
20:29-20:34
I know that the next Mistborn trilogy we're getting is the Ghost Bloods.

Aubrey
20:35-20:35
Right.

Peter
20:35-20:43
I am not interested at all because I look at the ghost bloods in Stormlight and I actively dislike them.

Aubrey
20:39-20:44
Yeah. Yeah.

Peter
20:44-21:03
And I look at Thetacar, aka um Kelsier in like The Lost Metal, and I actively hate him Like, like he has become, in my opinion, Kelsier right now is the enemy of the Cosmere.

Aubrey
20:50-21:06
Right. Yes, same Absolutely. Yep, I agree.

Peter
21:05-21:14
And and maybe that's intentional, but it's hard to go from who we thought Kelsier was and everything in the original Mistborn book.

Aubrey
21:14-21:15
Yeah.

Peter
21:14-21:27
And now it's like Kelsier is the big bad, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, we've got Odium and we've got the Shards and we've got Valor, whoever this frick that shard was in the last medal.

Aubrey
21:21-21:26
No, absolutely. Right.

Peter
21:28-21:38
We've got the shards out there, but they're like the big unknown literal fragments of God. But it's like, okay, but if there's like a big bad right now, I'm like, it's freaking Kelsier.

Aubrey
21:34-21:40
Yeah. Yeah, yep.

Peter
21:39-22:01
And and I'm just not interested in the Ghostbloods, and I'm not interested in Morays, and I'm not interested in Yattel, and I'm not interested in Shillan and her emotional turmoil over her two sprints that she's bonded to and you know, oh great, we found out in this book that, you know, who Shallan's mom is.

Aubrey
21:47-22:05
No. No Yeah.

Peter
22:01-22:04
And I'm like, I D G A F.

Aubrey
22:06-22:18
Yeah. Yep. And yeah, her whole multiple personalities thing just pisses me off, honestly.

Peter
22:17-22:30
Well, talk about on the nose. I mean, it is too on the nose. It's this Because she's a lightweaver, she can make literal manifestations of her alternate personalities.

Aubrey
22:24-22:31
Yeah, Yep.

Peter
22:30-22:32
And it's like, okay, dude.

Aubrey
22:32-22:33
Yeah.

Peter
22:33-22:34
I mean, come on.

Aubrey
22:33-22:35
Yep. Yeah.

Peter
22:34-22:52
And And see, I don't even remember that part.

Aubrey
22:35-22:50
And I don't even remember the like I felt like her whole thing in the whole book Felt very forgettable to me. Like I literally don't even remember what she did. I don't even remember what she did. Except for getting shot in the head with a crossbow. Crossbolt.

Peter
22:53-23:08
Just remember that she gets sucked into the spiritual realm. She gets sucked into the spiritual realm when Mrayz and Ayatl and Renarin and Relaine all get sucked in because Dalinor opens the perpendicularity.

Aubrey
23:03-23:43
Yes, yes, that's what it is. Yep. Yep Yeah.

Peter
23:09-23:43
And and they follow in the ghost bloods because that's what they need to do. But then everything she does there i is all I mean, that's the thing, is her whole art is just coming to terms with the Ghostbloods and Reyes. And again, I don't care about them. And I don't care about their story. And and I think like the only purpose I can see that that whole story of Shallan even does is to introduce the law the idea of anti-light, void light.

Aubrey
23:43-23:44
Yep, yep.

Peter
23:43-23:45
That's it. That's it.

Aubrey
23:45-23:57
Yep Yeah.

Peter
23:46-23:57
We've got Stormlight, and then literally the only thing of any note that her story does, as far as I'm concerned, is introduce void light and the concept. And he could have done it a different way that didn't involve Shallon.

Aubrey
23:58-24:30
Yep. So that I felt very um that was just really annoying to me. And again, forgettable. Like I was like, why I feel like we had so many Not that I liked her at all, but I I felt like that was just kind of a pointless storyline for her to be a part of Like or at least make it more important, or at least don't put Renard and Roland in there and make have them have their own thing. I don't know, it just felt weird weird to me. And maybe a little lazy, but that's just me being harsh.

Peter
24:30-24:35
Here's my last thing that I'm gonna say, and then I think the rest of my stuff needs to come out in the spoiler section.

Aubrey
24:35-24:45
Yeah Yeah.

Peter
24:36-24:52
And that is this. And I can't tell. Well, no, I can tell because I recently reread all of Mistborn. And I will tell you, Brandon Sanderson's writing has gotten worse.

Aubrey
24:52-24:54
Yeah, I would agree.

Peter
24:53-25:16
You go back and you read the original Mistborn trilogy and his prose, while never has been stellar, it was better then. And in both Lost Metal and Wind in Truth, I read it and again, it feels lazy. It feels very simple. And and the way We're going to go to to our boy Kaladin.

Aubrey
25:16-25:16
Yeah.

Peter
25:16-25:23
In rhythm of war, we just barely start to understand in the world of Roshar the idea of mental illness.

Aubrey
25:23-25:24
Right, right.

Peter
25:24-25:33
And then fast forward, I don't know, three days from the end of rhythm of war, because I mean Wind and Truth takes place over the course of 10 days.

Aubrey
25:30-25:35
Mm-hmm. Ten days, yeah.

Peter
25:34-25:44
So we fast forward three days, and here's Kaladin and Zeth tromping through Shinivar, and Kaladin is talking about mental health as if he's got a degree in social work.

Aubrey
25:43-25:57
An expert, yes Literally, yeah.

Peter
25:44-25:59
And I'm like, you just barely came to this idea of this like a week ago. And and so the language about mental health Felt so anachronistic. Like it didn't fit the world.

Aubrey
25:59-25:59
Yeah.

Peter
25:59-26:19
And and just so many things where I'm like like I'm reading a book right now called Murder Your Employer, The McMaster's Guide to Homicide, by Rupert Holmes, who's an English playwright and an English author, and it's funny. It's a comedy, it's fiction. Don't worry, people have not, this isn't a manual.

Aubrey
26:15-26:40
Yeah No, it is not good.

Peter
26:19-26:59
Sadly. No, I'm just kidding. Am I though? Anyway. And I'm reading this book now. This is what I started reading after. And the language, like the prose, is so much more elegant and inventive. And Brandon Sanderson's prose is not good. Like it is very it is very like 11th grade high school. You think you've written the best thing ever and you turn it into your teacher, but you're not even in AP English yet. You're You're maybe like 11th grade honors English and you wrote this essay thinking that you were just the B's knees and then you got it back and it has a a B minus on it.

Aubrey
26:50-27:15
All right. Yep. Yeah, yeah Yeah, every time every time I go to like and I read something else from another author and and I like come back to Brandon Sanderson's writing, I'm like, ooh. Yikes, the pros, man.

Peter
27:15-27:19
Yeah, so he creates for the most part good characters.

Aubrey
27:15-27:17
It's just bad.

Peter
27:20-27:21
I like a lot of his characters.

Aubrey
27:21-27:23
Yes, I agree.

Peter
27:22-27:32
His world building is second to none right now and perhaps is maybe circled all the way back around and is starting to crawl up its own ass, but whatever, you know.

Aubrey
27:32-27:34
Yep, yep, yep.

Peter
27:34-28:02
But but his actual his prose is no bueno Yeah, so so again, I love his world building and I love a lot of his characters.

Aubrey
27:41-27:56
No. Nope, not good. It doesn't flow well. It doesn't it's not elegant. It doesn't Like the sentences don't really lead into each other. It feels weird and choppy. It feels not good.

Peter
28:03-28:12
And and I do think that this is a this is a recent thing because I did not feel that way when I restarted Mistborn. Again, I wasn't blown away by it.

Aubrey
28:11-28:13
Yeah. Right.

Peter
28:13-28:29
But as I got to Bands of Mourning and then especially in Lost Metal, it was a stark difference for me to go, this feels In terms of the actual pros, it felt amateur-ish compared to the Final Empire.

Aubrey
28:30-29:01
Yeah. Yeah, and it felt in the final empire, it just feels a lot more careful to me. Like it feels more carefully placed. It feels like it's actually I don't know, has a little bit more thought into, you know, the order in which he's putting sentences and Like just just the pros, like just the pros. And it it doesn't feel that way with the other ones. It feels very scattered. Like when I remember reading Lost Metal, I just remember it being super scattered.

Peter
28:57-28:58
Yeah.

Aubrey
29:02-29:09
Like it doesn't just did not flow well. Like I just remember being like, whoa, what's happening? That's not that's not a good thing.

Peter
29:10-29:13
Yeah, so should we jump into spoilers?

Aubrey
29:13-29:15
Yes, let's do it.

Peter
29:14-29:34
Okay, spoiler hone sound effect here. I'll put one in. More I'm like thinking foghorn like Okay.

Aubrey
29:23-29:52
Brr yep, spoiler. Spoilers, spoilers Yes, yes, yes.

Peter
29:35-29:49
All right, spoilers. What'd you think? Can I just say I like Dalinar, but I'm so done. I'm so ready to be done with Dalinar being, frankly, a whiny ass little bitch.

Aubrey
29:52-30:18
I don't like Dalinar after this book. I think he is a hot-headed horr I think he's a horrible person too. Genuinely. I don't think anything can really actually bring him back from the things that he did as the Blackthorn. I also think it's horrible that the Blackthorn is coming back. Don't even get me started on that. Like when it's like, you know, that whole ending.

Peter
30:16-30:16
Yeah.

Aubrey
30:18-30:26
Dalinar pisses me off. He needs to just be no. Nope. We need to be done. Dalinar needs to be done.

Peter
30:26-31:33
Yeah, like he was the one where as it was getting closer and closer to the end, I was actually More worried that somehow Dalinar was going to survive than I was that he was going to bite it Yeah, yeah And and and I'll say that and I don't know why this didn't really work for me.

Aubrey
30:38-31:29
Yeah. Yep. Yep. He yeah, I just and Oathbringer was also one of my least favorites just because of him. just 'cause of him, honestly. And to be fair, an Oathbringer I feel a lot more for him. Like I I I liked him a lot more still, 'cause you're just getting to know his character and all of the horrible things. he went through and did and you're just understanding him as a you know, as a complex character. But in Wind and Truth it feels Not as complex and it feels more like he just has to be big good guy to save everything, honorable best guy ever. And it just makes me upset. So, yeah. I did not like that.

Peter
31:34-31:53
Maybe it's because of the time between the books or that I since I read them or Or or maybe it's the fact that, look, you know who else I never really liked? I didn't like Elokar. I didn't ever really like Elokar. He was a bumbling idiot.

Aubrey
31:51-32:33
Yeah, yep Governor Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah All right.

Peter
31:53-32:55
And so when all of a sudden Odium presents his champion and it's Gavinor who's been trapped in the spiritual worr realm for 20 years having his mind poisoned. I think this is supposed to be like some gut punch where you're supposed to be like, oh no. And I was just like, huh, okay. Whatever. And and here's the thing, like it's so pointless. Like he he sets his whole thing up and here comes Gavanor and it's supposed to be this, oh, and uh maybe I'm misremembering, but it hasn't been that long since I read those last two hundred pages. But I'm like, all it is is it's like Gavinor's just like, Mm, Grandpa, you are just bad and and and I know all the reasons why you're bad, and so I'm gonna kill you. And then Dalinar is just like Oh, I will not fight against you because because I have grown in the time I was in the spiritual realm, and I've overcome the blackthorn and and I will make a noble sacrifice.

Aubrey
32:42-32:44
Yeah, basically.

Peter
32:55-33:02
And I'm just like Like it didn't feel like it served any purpose other than to be a gut punch that I didn't feel.

Aubrey
32:55-33:03
Yeah Yeah.

Peter
33:02-33:12
Because they don't really, they don't fight, they don't reconcile, there's nothing that happens other than it's just a You know, it's just Teravangin's like, heh, look at you, little governor.

Aubrey
33:05-33:06
Right.

Peter
33:12-33:13
I will make you my puppet.

Aubrey
33:13-33:15
Right. Right.

Peter
33:14-33:37
And I'm like, you're such like, okay, Teravanjin. Didn't really like him before, but like he has become such a caricature of a big bad Where it's like, oh, okay, Teravanjan had his little, you know, his mental breakdown in the past with the whole the I don't even remember what it is.

Aubrey
33:21-33:43
No, no. Yeah Oh the yes, yes.

Peter
33:37-33:47
It's not the pattern, it's the what was his thing, the diagram, the I think that's what it is.

Aubrey
33:44-33:47
Was it I think it was the diagram. Was it the diagram?

Peter
33:47-33:48
Something like that.

Aubrey
33:48-33:50
You. Was it the diagram?

Peter
33:49-34:07
Hayden's weighing in. Hayden off screen is is letting us know if Yeah, so so he has his mental breakdown that you know turns into the diagram, and then he's a simpleton and alternatingly a simpleton and a brilliant like that whole thing was just like Whatever.

Aubrey
33:52-34:29
Terra Teravangians big play. That called diagram was a diagram. Yes, it was a diagram. Right. And an genius, like oof, yeah Yeah, yep.

Peter
34:07-35:05
And it's like he's a nice old man when he's a simpleton and then he's a cunning, cutthroat, bloodthirsty, you know, and and it's now he's odious. this like you know what is it raise rays was supposed to be the one-dimensional bad guy And I think that Teravangian as Odium is supposed to be the fully fleshed out, multifaceted bad guy that we both understand where he's coming from and and all this kind of stuff. But it's like The best the best villains are villains who both truly believe they're doing good But that you as the viewer, the reader, the whatever, can understand why they think that You don't have to agree, but you understand.

Aubrey
34:57-35:07
Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yep, yep.

Peter
35:06-35:13
So let's look at another pop culture version of this, and that would be Killmonger in Black Panther.

Aubrey
35:12-35:40
Yeah, yep Yep Yeah, I don't remember her name, Queen something.

Peter
35:14-35:52
You understand exactly where he's coming from and you can you can empathize with his position. Teravangian as Odium, we are supposed to feel that. We're supposed because the whole showdown with him and Yasna and um what's her face in Thalen? Um their whole argument where they're gonna they're gonna debate and You know, and and you're supposed to come away going, oh well, yeah, Teravanjin. I mean, of course Thalen signed with, you know, sided with him because he's got a point.

Aubrey
35:49-35:51
Yeah, like he's got a point. Yeah.

Peter
35:52-35:55
And you're like, no, he's just a dick.

Aubrey
35:55-35:56
Mm-hmm.

Peter
35:55-36:07
He's just a dick and you don't really appreciate where he's coming from because you're like, I can't, you're trying to tell me that you now are a fragment of God.

Aubrey
35:57-36:08
Yep. Yep.

Peter
36:09-36:34
And and you're so your vision of the Cosmere is so myopic that your only solution is to be like I must conquer the Cosmere for the good of all mankind and humanity and you know the singers and everything. And it's just like Okay, so your idea is let me wreak havoc and chaos throughout the entire Cosmere because somehow that's supposed to be better.

Aubrey
36:31-36:35
Yeah Right.

Peter
36:34-36:39
And I'm supposed to at least see where you're coming from. And I'm like, I don't.

Aubrey
36:39-36:53
I don't A better solution, yes, yes, and Right.

Peter
36:39-36:56
If you have the power of even a fragment of God, you should be able to come up with a better solution. Like we believe it when it's Thanos because he's a psychotic maniac.

Aubrey
36:56-36:58
Right, right, because he's a psycho.

Peter
36:59-37:04
But this is supposed to be this brilliant mind who saw the only path forward.

Aubrey
37:04-37:05
Yep.

Peter
37:05-37:11
coupled with the power of a god and and this is all he can come up with is to like Thanos that bitch.

Aubrey
37:09-37:10
Yeah.

Peter
37:13-37:24
Like Yeah.

Aubrey
37:13-38:08
Yeah, and and the debate between Yasna and him, um, Hayden just went because I mean, afterwards I didn't I kind of had to like process everything before I could actually, you know, create my own feelings about everything that happened in the book. But I was talking to Aiden about it, and it felt so wrong for Yasna to lose the debate because like she's supposed to be this genius who Like like the reason why she lost, like, d didn't make any sense to me, I guess. Like that being like her whole Because she's uh it's like her mental health, like her mental illness too, creating oh Yeah, yeah.

Peter
37:59-38:14
Well, I mean the thing is, is that Yasna Yasna is a cold-hearted person. And and that's all that Teravangian does is just be like, well, look, she's no different than me.

Aubrey
38:11-38:14
Yeah. Right.

Peter
38:14-38:28
And basically, you know, I can't again, I can't remember the Queen of Thalen, but You know, she basically is like, oh well, you both suck, so I guess I'll go side with the person who sucks the most who sucks but has the most power.

Aubrey
38:15-38:29
Right. Yeah Right, right.

Peter
38:29-38:33
And it's like I sat there going, yeah, I mean, sure, whatever.

Aubrey
38:29-38:35
And Yeah, it's like okay.

Peter
38:34-38:41
Like, like what is Yasna? Like, Yasna doesn't she she doesn't come up with any argument that's actually sensible in any way.

Aubrey
38:41-39:03
No, no. And that was kind of I I think on online in like the online community as well as like a big a big issue is just the fact that she's supposed to be this genius and came up with like no good arguments. It's like aren't isn't this supposed to be your thing? Like this is supposed to be your shit, girl. And and yet that's what you came up with?

Peter
39:03-39:06
Is basically like, but he's bad.

Aubrey
39:05-39:07
But he's really bad.

Peter
39:06-39:10
But he's bad, and Dalinar's not bad anymore.

Aubrey
39:10-39:16
Right. And Dalinar used to be bad, but we don't need to think about that because he's good now. It's like, come on, girl.

Peter
39:16-39:17
Yeah.

Aubrey
39:17-39:18
Come on.

Peter
39:18-39:27
Yeah, that whole that that part and again here's the thing. I don't like Jasna. I've never really liked Jasna as a character.

Aubrey
39:25-39:28
Yeah. Yeah.

Peter
39:28-39:42
Um so I and then let's just let's just talk about it. I could not give less of a crap about Ba Edo Mishrim.

Aubrey
39:42-39:45
No, me neither, me neither.

Peter
39:44-39:51
Like, I know this is a setup For what's gonna happen in the next cycle.

Aubrey
39:51-39:52
Yeah.

Peter
39:51-39:53
That has to be what this is.

Aubrey
39:54-40:16
Yeah Yeah.

Peter
39:54-40:25
But all of the time looking for Ba Edu Mishram's prison and And we realize that, oh no, Ba Edo Mishram was betrayed by the Knights Radiant and Oh, see, look how bad people are. So yes, she should she should try and drive the singers to destroy humanity 'cause they're bad. It's like, oh, it's not like It loses so much nuance, these characters. And then I feel like in in Wind and Truth, a lot of the kind of shades of gray that existed on Roshar.

Aubrey
40:23-40:24
Mm-hmm.

Peter
40:26-40:31
just got dumped and it's just like, nope, everything's black and white. Everything's black and white.

Aubrey
40:29-40:30
Yep.

Peter
40:31-40:51
And and everybody acts like everything's black and white. So So, you know, yes, I liked Renarin and Relaine. Like, I liked their relationship. I liked that they found each other. I like that this is you know, something that we can look at going forward, but the whole story of them freeing by it or Mishram and stuff, I'm like, I could not possibly.

Aubrey
40:44-40:45
Yeah.

Peter
40:52-40:56
I could not remember who Bayed O Mishram was before this book started.

Aubrey
40:56-40:57
Yep.

Peter
40:56-41:04
And even after I'd watched that three hour flipping video to get me up to speed, I still couldn't remember who she was or where this came from.

Aubrey
41:04-41:04
Yeah.

Peter
41:05-41:14
I mean And and this is where I hinted at beforehand, like his world building has circled all the way back around and is just like shooting right up its own rectum.

Aubrey
41:05-41:05
Yep.

Peter
41:14-41:17
And that's it's too complicated. It's too complicated.

Aubrey
41:17-41:42
Yeah There's just too much.

Peter
41:18-41:54
It's too like Do we, I mean, you know, just the this whole idea that it's like, okay, we've got again, we think of the Knight's Radiance and and the Heralds, and it's like, okay, we got the Heralds and And and they've got this oath packed and they they go back to some planet that somehow them being on this other planet traps this other thing on this other planet and and just like, oh my gosh, it's It's trying it's trying to be too clever by at least two hundred percent and and gets to a point where it's It's so far of just it it's it's too much.

Aubrey
41:54-41:55
It's too much.

Peter
41:54-42:35
He's complicated the story too much, I think Well, again, it feels like it's just something that needed to be done to set up what's happening in future books, but we spent so much time with that.

Aubrey
41:57-42:32
Yeah. Yep. Yep. I agree. I agree. It just was Yeah It was just too much. It was especially oh bot Anumushram. I do not even like, yeah, I could not give less of uh crap about that whole storyline. I could I didn't even remember that they released her. I didn't even remember that. Because I was like, this is that just feels so forgettable. That just felt so forgettable. Yeah.

Peter
42:35-42:44
Like this whole subplot where, you know, uh Shillan has to stop the ghost bloods because she thinks they're gonna try and free Bayed U Mishram and they gotta find her prison.

Aubrey
42:44-42:44
Yeah.

Peter
42:45-42:51
And it's just like, oh good lord. Again, like 300 pages that could have been cut out of this book.

Aubrey
42:51-42:53
Yeah, yeah.

Peter
42:52-43:03
And And and so it's like that, and then you know, Shallan ends up stuck in the cognitive realm at the end because they're not and and I'm like, oh, I guess I feel bad for Adolin.

Aubrey
43:04-43:06
Yep, exactly.

Peter
43:04-43:08
But that's the only reason I even cared that she was stuck there.

Aubrey
43:06-43:08
I feel bad for Adolin, yep.

Peter
43:08-43:12
At the same time, I'm like I'm like, you know what, Halin's got Yannagan right now.

Aubrey
43:09-43:14
The only person Yeah.

Peter
43:12-43:20
They're bros. They they He's he's he may maybe he's actually better off with her stuck in the cognitive realm because she's just she's toting around a lot of baggage.

Aubrey
43:17-43:26
Yeah, I'm like she she doesn't she doesn't deserve Adolin, my boy. He she doesn't deserve him.

Peter
43:25-43:31
Yeah, yeah. Um, I I don't really care for Nivani either.

Aubrey
43:27-43:32
Yeah. Me neither.

Peter
43:32-43:34
Like I've had a hard time with Navani.

Aubrey
43:32-43:34
I don't even remember what she did.

Peter
43:34-43:51
She doesn't do anything really. She goes into the spiritual realm with Dalinar. She's there for some of the time and then she leaves. Using the power of the sibling, and since she's also a bondsmith, she manages to get out and and think she brings Gavanor with her, but doesn't.

Aubrey
43:45-43:56
Right Right, but then doesn't. Yeah, I don't really love her.

Peter
43:54-44:26
But like she just it it felt again, it felt like a whole unnecessary thing. Another story that I just didn't think was necessary was the the shall we call them the non-allied singers? And their whole trip to to the shattered plains and and getting a treaty that guarantees now that they've got their own little The the shattered planes are now theirs, okay, all right.

Aubrey
44:13-44:26
Yes. Right. All right.

Peter
44:26-44:37
But like eh, it's like The only thing that I really even care about that whole thing is that we got Sigil basically getting a Don Shard.

Aubrey
44:27-44:31
Have 'em then. Yeah.

Peter
44:38-44:41
So now we know why he ends up where he is in the Sunlit Man.

Aubrey
44:38-44:43
Right. You can send the sunlight man, yep, that's yep.

Peter
44:42-44:56
But in terms of like the rest of all of the everything that happened at the Shattered Planes, I eh Again, three hundred pages that could have been cut.

Aubrey
44:49-45:10
Right, right. And it was also just forgettable. Just forgettable Yep, yep, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah.

Peter
44:59-45:23
So Here's the only big spoilery thing that I'm like, yeah, I was down with that. And that was the journey into Shinivar. So Kaladin and Zeth story I liked. I thought it was good. I liked that they were able to sort of redeem Nail and and that you could begin to understand why Nail and the Skybreakers were kind of so psycho and and doing what they did.

Aubrey
45:21-45:30
Yep, yep Yeah, truly.

Peter
45:23-45:39
And then just the whole like Ishar, screw that dude, whatever. But like I will be honest, I was kind of glad that Zeth didn't become the Herald.

Aubrey
45:39-45:42
Yes, me too.

Peter
45:40-45:46
Because I like Zeth, but boy howdy is that man broken.

Aubrey
45:46-45:48
Absolutely, yes.

Peter
45:47-45:54
And I don't think he has healed to the point where he was ready to become a herald. Kaladin, also broken.

Aubrey
45:52-45:52
Yep.

Peter
45:54-45:56
But this is a book of Kaladin healing.

Aubrey
45:54-45:58
Yes. Mm-hmm.

Peter
45:57-46:02
So we have all of this book. Now granted again it was only 10 days, but boy, it felt like a lot longer than that.

Aubrey
46:02-46:03
Yes.

Peter
46:03-46:13
We got this whole book where Kaladin now is healing. And so I feel like Kaladin becoming a herald, you're like, okay, he's in a place where that isn't going to be bad.

Aubrey
46:12-46:14
Yeah. Right.

Peter
46:14-46:19
Whereas I'm like, I don't know if Zeth is ready to be a herald.

Aubrey
46:19-46:22
No, no, certainly not.

Peter
46:20-46:22
He may still be too broken.

Aubrey
46:22-46:32
Yes, yes, and that was something that I was like, you know what? Kaladin becoming a herald, that actually made sense to me. That made sense.

Peter
46:32-46:32
Yes.

Aubrey
46:32-46:52
That made sense for my boy. That made sense for him. And I was glad that that was his happy ending and not that he was gonna die tragically. Because I feel like that would not be something Brando Sando wouldn't like he wouldn't put that off the table would be having Calden die tragically.

Peter
46:52-47:07
I I I'll be honest, I thought that Kaladin was going to die at some point. I thought Kaladin was gonna be uh Uh I thought Kaladin was going to be the main casualty, and I thought that Dalinar was going to persist, so I was glad that it was the other way around.

Aubrey
47:07-47:38
Yes, me too. Yeah, because Kaladin deserves yeah, it just it just made sense for his character, for that to be his ending. And I loved all the background with Zeth and just like learning about his whole like this felt like his book, you know, like every every one of the books kind of had the main the main person it was focused on and it felt like his and I I enjoyed. I enjoyed all of his background and just being able to understand him more and just realize why he's such a weirdo.

Peter
47:38-47:42
Yes. He he is a broken man from a broken land.

Aubrey
47:40-47:44
Because Broke, yes, exactly.

Peter
47:44-47:58
Who that that honestly, as we find out, was being led by a broken herald who thought that they had become God Yeah, exactly.

Aubrey
47:44-47:57
Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. So it was like that makes sense that he turned out so much stuff. Poor guy.

Peter
47:58-47:59
Exactly.

Aubrey
47:58-48:03
Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of who else.

Peter
48:01-48:10
Well I don't know. I was gonna say other thoughts. You know, Lift, she's fun to see, but she was underutilized.

Aubrey
48:10-48:11
Yeah.

Peter
48:10-48:20
I liked where our where Relaine and um Renarin ended up, but their whole story I again didn't really find it interesting.

Aubrey
48:16-48:22
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Peter
48:22-48:50
So Yeah, me too.

Aubrey
48:23-49:04
Um, I did think Or I think I heard or I saw something online that some people were thinking speculating. So of course just speculation that Adolin's next thing was that he was gonna have like a fire moss addiction because of his leg. Like that's where that was headed. Um I really, really would like that to not happen for him. I would really like that to not happen. Um, I don't quite remember exactly how we leave him. I know He obviously is like I think he's like using moss just because of the pain. Like obviously it's just bad.

Peter
49:04-49:23
Well, I mean they only it well it was only really at the very end where they're trying to So they come up with this idea, they go, if we can get Yannagan or somebody Aisish into the throne room on the throne at the time of the contest of champions.

Aubrey
49:04-49:33
I think he'll not be able to heal it, right? Yeah Yeah.

Peter
49:24-49:40
Then even though the city has been lost to the singers, but but per the words of the the agreement. If an Azish person is on the throne at that time, then Azer is free from Odium's control.

Aubrey
49:40-49:41
Right, right.

Peter
49:41-49:59
And so on their way in there, somebody gives him a little fire must to get him in. Um, so that's the thing is like I don't I don't remember it being something that he was using other than like a physician type person gives him some while they're making that final push into there.

Aubrey
49:46-49:59
Yeah, yeah Yeah.

Peter
49:59-50:08
And then he gets in there and he has to fight what's his nuts, the one fuse that I Abedai the monarch, I think.

Aubrey
50:03-50:11
Yeah Yeah yeah, Happy the Monarch. Yeah.

Peter
50:10-50:44
So See, that feels like a stretch to me because and I could be wrong, but I felt like it was literally a he's trying to make Adolin a little bit more human by saying Look, let's, you know, he's he's gotta do this and he's he's hard up because he's missing his foot.

Aubrey
50:11-50:28
Yeah, that was just I saw some of that speculation, like people think the the only reason why Brandon like put that even in the book was to kind of foreshadow. I don't know. We'll see. I really hope it doesn't happen for my guy. It does, yeah.

Peter
50:44-50:50
We'll we'll make it a little more realistic that he needs a little help to get in there. He can't just superhuman it.

Aubrey
50:48-50:57
Yeah, yeah Yes, yep.

Peter
50:50-51:10
Um, the big thing is, and and where it ended really was the idea of so Maya comes back and all of the I don't remember the term. But those spren who had been abandoned, the dead eye, but the deadeyes who are coming back, like are getting their consciousness back.

Aubrey
51:07-51:11
Yes, yeah.

Peter
51:11-51:17
They're not affected by what happens at the end of the contest.

Aubrey
51:13-51:14
Mm-hmm.

Peter
51:17-51:25
So they're Sprint who can still basically function and they can be shard blades and they can make shard plate and all this kind of stuff.

Aubrey
51:17-51:26
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Peter
51:26-51:34
So Yeah, that was another good story.

Aubrey
51:26-51:42
Yeah, I really did love um Maya and Adolin's um relationship as well. Yeah, I really, I really liked that. Um Other than that though, we had a lot of negatives to say.

Peter
51:43-51:48
I mean, here's the thing is it it's a it's a cool world.

Aubrey
51:48-51:49
Yeah.

Peter
51:49-51:53
It's a at the core of it, it's an interesting story.

Aubrey
51:53-51:54
Yeah.

Peter
51:54-52:13
But like I said, his editor needs to be like, nah, dog, come on. You gotta tighten this up. Like, I really feel like the Stormlight Archives would be a much better series if the longest book was like six or seven hundred pages long.

Aubrey
52:02-52:24
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, or even like even like 900, because my favorite one, Throne of Glass, my favorite series, the last one is like 900, and it's like, yeah, that's fair enough.

Peter
52:14-52:55
Like if he just Well, and I think the other problem is it really is there they're two stuffed where you you know if you're listening to the audiobook in particular, you really start to notice this because you get You get the little interlude things, and then you get the narrator say, you know, the beginning of day 10.

Aubrey
52:24-53:00
No, that's okay. And it doesn't feel that long. Because it flows really well. But having like every single one be over a thousand pages, right? Like, that's insane. Yeah Yeah.

Peter
52:55-53:03
You know, and then it's like Dalinar, Kaladin, Zeth, Relaine, Renar, and Shallan, Adolin, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Aubrey
53:01-53:21
Names every single Yeah, absolutely.

Peter
53:03-53:19
Like names every character who you're gonna spend time with that day. And it's just like Yeah, it's like one whole chapter of just naming the people who are going to be in the next. And so I look at that and I go, I think there's a good story that could be really, really tightened up.

Aubrey
53:21-53:36
Yeah, no, I agree. It's a great story. I feel very attached to some of the characters and attached to the story, and I definitely like I want to know what happens. I'm gonna read all the future books of course, but yeah, it was a little it was a little chaotic.

Peter
53:36-53:54
I and I I it's sad because I've reached the end of this and I've as I've gotten to the end of the others, even Rhythm of War, which like I say, I think is probably my least favorite. I got to the end and I was like, oh boy, this is gonna be tough waiting for the next book.

Aubrey
53:53-53:54
Yeah.

Peter
53:54-53:56
And now I'm like, what else?

Aubrey
53:56-54:01
Yeah, that's kind of how I felt too, which is not really how you want your audience to feel, I don't think.

Peter
53:59-54:09
You know. Like honestly, I'm like, you know what, don't come back to Roshar for a while. Get back to um Scadriel.

Aubrey
54:09-54:10
Yep, yep.

Peter
54:10-54:17
Or or go back to um really the one I want is to go back to and I'm blanking on the name of the planet that Elantris is on now.

Aubrey
54:17-54:18
Oh, is it Cell?

Peter
54:18-54:21
Cell, yeah. I'm like, yeah, let's go, let's go to sell.

Aubrey
54:19-54:22
Yeah. Yeah.

Peter
54:21-54:23
Let's we haven't been to sell in a long time.

Aubrey
54:23-54:24
Yeah, yeah.

Peter
54:23-54:27
Let's let's see what's happening there to to let's have let's see what's happening on sell.

Aubrey
54:24-54:41
Let's see what's happening. Yeah, yeah, no I agree. Well well it's it was quite the book. It was quite the Quite the journey to be on, but thanks for chatting with me about it.

Peter
54:41-55:10
No, I'm glad we could finally talk because, you know, again, it uh it took me a long time to get there. I don't regret reading it at all. And years down the road, when I'm sure there's a special leatherbound edition, I'll probably kickstart it because I do like the world and I like a lot of the characters. But a little bit of the shine is wearing off for me.

Aubrey
55:10-55:13
Yeah, yeah, and that's fair.

Peter
55:12-55:19
Where, you know, a year ago I would have said Brandon Sanderson's my favorite author. And now I'm like, do I want to say that?

Aubrey
55:17-55:23
Yeah Yeah. Yeah, and that's fair, that's fair.

Peter
55:22-55:25
You want to read a wild book? Here's my book recommendation for you.

Aubrey
55:25-55:25
Okay.

Peter
55:25-55:27
Have you read The Gone Away World?

Aubrey
55:28-55:32
I have not Okay.

Peter
55:29-55:34
You need to go read The Gone Away World by Nick Harkaway. It's wild.

Aubrey
55:34-55:48
Is it just a one one off Okay.

Peter
55:36-56:04
It's just a one-off, it's one off and The writing is gonna mess with your brain. I mean, he writes in such an interesting, just like fascinating way. I'm going to I'm going to find you I'm gonna read to you just I'm gonna find some quotes from it to read so you know what you're getting into. Now Nick Harkaway, um, have you ever heard of Jean Le Carey?

Aubrey
56:04-56:05
I have not.

Peter
56:04-56:12
Jean Le Carey Jean Le Corey is a British despite Jean Le Corey is his pen name.

Aubrey
56:06-56:13
Nope. Oh, okay.

Peter
56:12-56:20
Uh he is a British spy novelist. Have you did you ever hear do you remember the Tom Hanks movie, I think it is Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy?

Aubrey
56:15-56:23
Okay. I recognize the name, yeah.

Peter
56:22-56:26
Okay, that's that's Jean Lecare, Jean Lecrey.

Aubrey
56:25-56:26
Oh, okay.

Peter
56:26-56:28
Nick Harkaway is his son.

Aubrey
56:26-56:27
Okay.

Peter
56:28-56:29
He's an author as well.

Aubrey
56:28-56:29
Aww.

Peter
56:30-57:05
And the Gone Away World was like his debut. But I'm just gonna, just so you understand, again, this is more the level of prose that we we're looking for here. People don't want children to know what they need to know. They want their kids to know what they ought to need to know. If you're a teacher, you're in a constant battle with the mildly deluded adults who think the world will get better if you imagine it is better. You want to teach about sex? Fine, but only when you're old enough to do it. You want to talk politics? Sure, but nothing modern. Religion? So long as you don't actually think about it. Otherwise some furious mob will come your house come to your house and burn you for a witch.

Aubrey
57:06-57:07
Wow.

Peter
57:08-57:09
I like this.

Aubrey
57:08-57:09
That sounds fun.

Peter
57:09-57:25
A a cherry pie is ephemeral. From the moment it emerges from the oven, it begins a steep decline from too hot to edible to cold to stale to moldy, and finally to a post-pie state where only history can tell you. that it was once considered food. The pie is a parable of human life.

Aubrey
57:25-57:30
What that's funny. I like that.

Peter
57:29-57:56
Here's another good one. The problem isn't who is in charge, it's what is in charge. The problem is that people are encouraged to function as machines or actually as mechanisms. Human emotion and sympathy are unprofessional. They're inappropriate to the exercise of reason. Everything which makes people good, makes them human, is ruled out. The system doesn't care about people, but we treat it as if it were one of us, as if it were the sum of our goods and not the product of our least admirable compromises.

Aubrey
57:56-57:57
Oh wow.

Peter
57:59-58:00
Yes.

Aubrey
57:59-58:00
All right.

Peter
58:00-58:01
Yes.

Aubrey
58:01-58:38
Alrighty Oh dear, I'm excited.

Peter
58:01-58:44
And here's what I'll tell you. It it it it it takes a turn about halfway through Where when I was reading it, I was like, wait, what? What's going on? What? And then when I realized what was going on, I literally, I remember it was in our house in New Hampshire. I closed the book. Your mom and I were in bed. I was reading. I closed it. I set it down. And your mom's like, are you done? And I literally turned to her and I said, and I guess I'll have to beep this part out. I said, I don't think my brain can handle being fed any harder than it just was. So you want something very different? Go read The Gone Away World by Nick Harkaway.

Aubrey
58:44-58:54
Okay, how long is it? Like about he's showing me the physical Ah Oh Well, that just like sent me into a flashback.

Peter
58:47-59:01
Um It's because I desperately love this book.

Aubrey
58:54-59:04
I remember seeing it I I remember seeing it in New Hampshire in the New Hampshire house. Yeah, that just sent me into shock a little bit.

Peter
59:02-59:07
It is uh it's under 500 pages, like 495 pages.

Aubrey
59:06-59:10
Oh, nice, nice, sweet, all right.

Peter
59:08-59:21
Yes. It is it will be a good palate cleanser because the prose is Again, this is a book where you don't.

Aubrey
59:14-59:30
Hmm, indeed Okay.

Peter
59:22-59:36
So I don't know if you speed read. Your mother reads very quickly. I have always been a sub-vocalizer. And I have tried to, for a while I tried to really teach myself to not.

Aubrey
59:36-59:59
Yeah Yeah Yeah, yeah.

Peter
59:36-59:57
And then I actually read an article from an author arguing that we do ourselves a huge disservice by reading so fast. So I've kind of tried to slow down a little bit. I try to not sub-vocalize all the time, but if it's something that I'm really trying to pay attention to, then I'll sub-vocalize. Needless to say, I did not need to sub-vocalize for Wind and Truth.

Aubrey
59:59-01:00:05
I do speed read. I'm a really, really fast Fast reader, so I gotta be a little better about that.

Peter
01:00:03-01:00:05
You're gonna want to subvocalize.

Aubrey
01:00:06-01:00:06
Okay.

Peter
01:00:06-01:00:09
Like you're gonna want to subvocalize.

Aubrey
01:00:07-01:00:08
Sounds good.

Peter
01:00:09-01:00:22
This is a book that if you speed read it, you get to the end of a section and you're like What is going on? You're like, I literally don't understand what I just read.

Aubrey
01:00:23-01:00:29
Alright, but yeah, I am trying to read a little slower so I can make sure I'm catching everything.

Peter
01:00:24-01:00:31
So Read the gone away world.

Aubrey
01:00:29-01:00:31
So Okay.

Peter
01:00:31-01:00:37
We'll talk about it. In fact, now I've decided as soon as I finish Murder Gear Employer, it's time for me to reread the Gone Away World.

Aubrey
01:00:37-01:00:40
Perfect. Sounds good to me.

Peter
01:00:39-01:00:39
Okay.

Aubrey
01:00:40-01:00:49
Alright. Hey, well thanks for chatting with me about about wind and truth and do you do you have a do you have a fact?

Peter
01:00:47-01:00:49
Yeah, it was a good chat.

Aubrey
01:00:49-01:00:51
I don't have a fact.

Peter
01:00:50-01:00:54
You know what? We've gone plenty long. I think we can wrap it up now.

Aubrey
01:00:53-01:00:56
Okay, yeah, I don't I don't have a fact today either way.

Peter
01:00:56-01:00:57
It's all right.

Aubrey
01:00:56-01:00:58
I've been been sicky.

Peter
01:00:57-01:01:03
You know what? We we we we went real hard on Wind and Truth. We spent a lot of time talking about it.

Aubrey
01:01:01-01:01:02
We did.

Peter
01:01:03-01:01:05
And and uh so yeah, I think we're good.

Aubrey
01:01:03-01:01:20
We did All right, well if everyone can, you know, like, comment, subscribe, whatever, whatever they do for pods, give us a five-star review, because we are a five-star pod Um, and we will talk to everyone in a few weeks.

Peter
01:01:10-01:01:30
All that fun stuff. We may should we plan to just take the two weeks like because I'll be traveling the week after you're gonna be gone, so maybe we just get plan four weeks. We'll tell everybody now, probably four weeks for our next one.

Aubrey
01:01:29-01:01:31
Yeah, probably four weeks for our next one.

Peter
01:01:32-01:01:33
Let's do it.

Aubrey
01:01:32-01:01:37
It'll be a little chaotic, so a little bit longer in between, but we'll be back in approximately four weeks.

Peter
01:01:37-01:01:38
We shall